HenL[BA](UD) vs XxX]Q[OwL(ORC)

[Henl86]

Completely ripped up by mass wyvs again.. I was doing better than him early, creeped as much as possible and teched fast for tri hero+frenzy ghouls+a few fiends. I attack and he tps in, mass wyvs decimate me.. Wtf was I suppose to do? I don't think he had that much more this time, and I had tri hero+orb..

The hero combo didn't really work at all because wyv focus kills heroe's insanely fast(would have been even better with hexing dk), I coil, hero is dead before cooldown is over.. I couldn't really have gained anymore levels before attacking.. Meanwhile he's getting free xp, gold and items because there's no anti air at ogre camps..

I could have had a few more units, but it wouldn't have done ANYTHING as I barely killed 1 unit of him :/. Counter plz?

[Paradisee]

Did you own his hero early game nub ? :P

[Henl86]

lalala

[Paradisee]

lalalal Im so proud :)

[Henl86]

Shhh, mod delete spam k thx.

[Paradisee]

*done*

Han0L< Care 2 be owned ?

Mod delete the spam k thx.

[Techno_boy]

Havent watched the replay yet, but have u tried to add DL as third hero+aura+gargs?

[Henl86]

I've always gone dk\lich\dl, the only time I don't is I went crypt lord first and can't.. Gargs suck vs orc. Sleep is useful in addition to carrion swarm.

[Techno_boy]

I've always gone dk\lich\dl, the only time I don't is I went crypt lord first and can't.. Gargs suck vs orc. Sleep is useful in addition to carrion swarm.

Erm mass wyvern can be countered by mass Garg. As long as u have the double aura support. How else u want to counter it? Destros wont work anymore and Ghoul/fiend u just experienced urself.

Ofcourse he has bats but gargs can be massed pretty easy.

[Techno_boy]

Meanwhile he's getting free xp, gold and items because there's no anti air at ogre camps..

Reading this i assume the map was Plunderisle. Im sorry but on this map Gargs freaking own. U can creep the ogre camps+u can creep the dragons fastest with Garg.

I know u dont take advice, but i keep trying :nervous:

[Henl86]

Silly boy^_^, they're free experience to bats, and wyvs kill them fast even without bats.. Try creeping dragons vs a good orc and see if you don't get jacked, see if he hasn't already crept ogre lord camps(since wyvs do it much faster, and orc techs faster). Anyways it doesn't matter what you can creep since bats will own you and give more experience to the orc player than you gained from extra creeping(which won't be much if the orc is decent)..

[Techno_boy]

LMAO ok whatever HenL...UD cant beat Orc :D

[Paradisee]

My HU owns Han0L :P

[Henl86]

Of course Ud can beat orc(orc has an advantage, but not huge afaik). Gargs can't.

Stop playing Dota Maikel, thanks.

[Techno_boy]

Of course Ud can beat orc(orc has an advantage, but not huge afaik). Gargs can't.

Stop playing Dota Maikel, thanks.

Well why didnt u beat him then. U didnt use gargs so u should have w0ned him.

Im 100% sure i have seen 3 replays of an UD owning Orc on Plunderisle by using gargs.

When im home i give them to you because you dont accept any advice anyways...maybe a gosu rep can change ur mind (ur changing into Blee)

[Henl86]

Look, it's theorycraft, but how in the hell is gargs gonna beat orc WHO HAS BATS. Only way to win would be to suprise him with mass gargs and win the game right there, with burrows and towers that's gonna be kinda hard, + orc harrassed\scouts a lot.

Garg stats:185 gold 30 wood 2 food build time 35 doesn't say how much experience, but anyways orc gains experience, you don't.

Bat: 160 gold 40 wood 2 food build time 25

Bat is cheaper in gold, a bit more lumber, builds much faster. Bat kills one garg and does 140 damage to others. Orc player gets experience and loses nothing, gains buildtime advantage.

Bats are perfect counters to gargs.. How can this be argued? Meanwhile the wyverns still do 150% damage to gargs and they do 100% to wyverns(though gargs have good anti air damage to begin with).

In addition to this, a few bats +wyverns will take out ud base(goldmine in particular) FAST, and if you come with gargs, you're just feeding him xp. Gargs can't do nearly as well, and if fortified defences are researched, you can't do anything.

[Techno_boy]

Well on Plunderisle u need them in order to creep the ogres plus dragons...

I dont say only get gargs, but gargs?destr and trihero with orbs might help (carrion-Nova)

[Henl86]

1. Fiends creep ogres easily, ghouls do fine at that point in the game(statues and second hero
2. Creeping dragons is insanely risky .. If you're caught you lose units+tp, if you can't tp you lose the game.. If you're attacked while doing so you're also not in the best spot exactly..

Any gargs you build will get owned by bats=much more experience than you got from any creeping advantage you might've had. Mass gargs+destroyers+trihero+orbs is extremely expensive.. The thing is that 1 bat>1 garg(+damage to nearby ones), and that means gargs are not good vs orc..

The only thing you might do is force him to make so many bats that he doesn't have many wyvs, and use heroes to fight his few wyvs+heroes, but his heroes will be much higher level than yours as a result :/ . Also gl getting an expansion up(and holding it up) with bats harrassing :/.

[Czigga]

Orc > UD in this patch it's that simple, all top players agree

[Henl86]

Yet I have 60% vs orc :O

[ADO0MSDAY]

UD own orc.....im sorry fiends+ stats just rape anything that can breathe. 60% of the time...it works everytime...

[Blee]

UD own orc.....im sorry fiends+ stats just rape anything that can breathe. 60% of the time...it works everytime...
Grunts and raiders work very well vs that combo... though last night I got beat by a guy who used a Crypt lord second to tank for the fiends... was pretty annoying with a huge beetle in the way, and I lost...

I wouldn't think gargs are good vs orc either. Most Orcs go for a beastary vs UD, so it's no problem for the Orc to pump a few bats and explode them on the gargs...

Btw, how come I never have success with mass wyvs? =(

Yet I have 60% vs orc
That's because you get raped by n00belves, which lowers your ELL and gives you easier Orc opponents. =D

[Henl86]

Heh, tried gargs, don't know about food count etc, and he had better heroes, but he could creep faster so... Dl+dk+lich+frenzy ghouls+gargs

Guy had 250 apm lol.